Post by Berdugo on Oct 12, 2006 0:44:59 GMT -5
Explanation of Surrender Rules
(Taken from http://www.airsoftplayers.com)
Pikachoad
When playing airsoft, there will always be cases where a player will try to get another player to surrender… i.e. give up without a fight. Due to a lack of normalization of the protocols for surrender attempts, we often find that some of the most dangerous encounters on the airsoft field come out of botched surrender attempts.
This article attempts to codify the procedures for surrender attempts. While I am not indicating that everyone should/will use this, these procedures WILL be used at least at every event I host (Op: Southern Comfort).
To begin, a few observations:
Safety is the paramount concern. You hear that? Paramount. Even more important than the simulation aspect of the activity. No matter WHAT, you should never shoot anyone at close range.
Simulation is the second most important concern. After safety of course.
Accidents will happen. But…
You are responsible for your actions. It is easy to get caught up in the moment of a skirmish, but there are no excuses for sloppy play when safety is at risk.
How does one ask for a surrender? This can be left up to individual groups or events. Some people say "bang." I personally prefer that the attacker say "Surrender." The key is just make sure every player knows what to listen for.
That being said lets begin with the rules for WHEN a surrender is feasible. As an attacker, you should consider a surrender attempt only if you are in total control of the situation. This is KEY. You should know where the opponent is, you should have a positional advantage on your opponent, you should have your gun properly shouldered/aimed, and your attempt at a surrender should come as a surprise to your opponent. If there is a CHANCE that your opponent could feel that he or she has the advantage over you, then do NOT try a surrender. In other words, a surrender should be a 100% one-sided action. The opponent should be caught totally off guard. If they know you are there, and know you are coming, DO NOT try to get a surrender.
Why?
On a philosophical level, when you ask someone to surrender, you are saying that their death is imminent, and you are giving them the chance to avoid having to actually be shot. Now, this means that for you to ask for a surrender, the opponents death must be imminent… meaning that the kill must be 100% yours. If there is ANY chance of them getting the kill on you first, then it is inappropriate to go for a surrender.
When going in for a surrender, KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER. Under no circumstances will you shoot the person. If you fear you will get shot yourself, maybe you should reconsider if you are actually in control of the situation, and if a surrender is appropriate.
When going for a surrender, you should only call for a surrender when your opponent is at point blank range. Meaning less than say 5 feet away… close enough to almost touch them with the barrel of your gun. If you cannot get in that close, then maybe you should reconsider if you are actually in control of the situation and if a surrender is appropriate.
Some people indicate that you should only call for surrender from behind… I find this to be a bit too exclusive, in that you can often get surrenders from the side or above, depending on the terrain and the layout of where you play. Just make sure you are within 5ft, and are in no real danger of getting shot.
Lets look at practical examples of this.
I saw this at an event in Atlanta this past weekend. We knew bogies where in a barn. Someone ran across the door of the barn, and while running, aimed their gun into the barn, and yelled "bang" a few times. This is not a valid surrender attempt. It was safe, which is fine, but it fails any degree of realism and control. The attacker had no idea where specifically the opponents were. Do not try for a surrender when you don't know where your opponents are.
You have one person in a bunker, one outside. The one on the outside knows the other guy is in there, so he sticks his gun in through a window, and calls for surrender. This is not a valid surrender attempt. You should be able to see the person and be in total control of your gun. I think it is lame anytime someone fires a gun without having it shouldered or properly aimed (ever see a person fire a M16 just by holding it off to their side, and not shouldered???), but it is especially dangerous to do it in a surrender attempt.
You have two people in a close quarters area, who suddenly each round a corner and see the other person a few feet away. Neither is in control, both are aware of the other, no surrender attempt should be made.
Same event in Atlanta as I mentioned above, same barn. Opponent on inside of barn, shooting out to the side. I come up to the barn, knowing he is still focusing on the people to my right, and him unable to see me because of the barn walls. I come up to the wall, waited for him to reload, spin round with gun in hand, aim the gun at him, and call for surrender. I am in control, I have my gun aimed, he has no idea I was there. That was a proper surrender, and he did. Once I finished that surrender, a guy that way behind me on the other side of the barn, hiding behind a door called for my surrender. I didn't know he was there, he was in control, and had his gun steadily aimed. Without hesitation, I surrendered. True event, with two proper surrenders.
At the field in Dothan, Steve and I were having a shoot out in Dodge City at fairly close range. He pulled back to reload or just get his bearings, and I quickly ran up to the bunker he was in, ran around the back of it, came up behind him, and called for surrender. He knew I was close, but didn't know I had gone around the back of the bunker, and I caught him by surprise. Properly executed surrender. True story.
At the field in Dothan again, Steve went for a surrender on Blake. Blake was shooting out of a window in a bunker, when Steve came up to the front of the bunker, and just suddenly popped in front of Blake and called for surrender. Blake was startled, and as he pulled back, his gun (which was already sticking out of the window) snagged on the window, and since the gun stopped but his hand kept going, he ended up squeezing the trigger and shooting Steve at point blank range. Now, this is an interesting case. Steve called for surrender, but because he wasn't in control of the situation properly, he was actually shot. If there is a chance you will get shot, then don't call for surrender. While it is unfortunate that Steve was shot at point blank, he shouldn't have thrown his body in front of a shooting AEG only 4 inches away.
Event in Athens, GA. One guy covers up in a bush by the side of a trail. Some opponents come by in a tank. The guy pops up when the tank is about 20 ft away, and calls for a surrender. This is an improperly executed surrender. Opponents were too far away.
Now, some of these scenarios beg the question… what do you do in cases where you cannot call for a surrender?
In the first example above, if you get close to someone but cannot make a controlled surrender attempt, and your only choice is to run by and yell "bang", then simply look for a better angle. Pull back, and try to approach from a distance and angle where you can either get a controlled surrender attempt, or, you can engage the opponent with your gun.
In the second example above, if you find yourself dangerously close to someone and you cannot get a controlled surrender attempt, either totally fall back and go for a longer-range attack or try to maneuver around to get a controlled surrender. In the fifth example above, I found myself in that position with Steve. My choices were either to retreat to a safe position and resume firing, or sneak around and take him by surprise, which I did. If he had turned around and seen me as I was approaching, a surrender attempt would have NOT been made (see the very next case below).
In the third example above, which is quite common, two people suddenly are face to face. No one is in control of the situation. Here you have two choices… either you both are out, or you both agree to part ways and meet again later in the battle. Remember, safety first, and no matter what are you to ever shoot someone in close. For the sake of realism, I would prefer that both people be eliminated in this scenario.
What if you have a good angle on someone, but suspect that if you move in close for a surrender, you will jeopardize your control of the situation or put yourself in an unsafe situation? Just position yourself so you are outside of the minimum shooting distance, and shoot them with a single shot. No need to spray on fully automatic if you have the element of surprise. In the seventh example above, the guy laying the ambush should have just waited and shot everyone in the tank, rather than trying to make a long distance surrender.
Can you deny a surrender? No. IF someone properly executes a surrender, then the opponent cannot deny it in any way. The responsibility in these situations falls on the attacker going for the surrender, not the opponent.
Can you exclude yourself from the surrender rules and just take close shots? While people may say "just go ahead and shoot me up close," that should never be allowed. People may not mind getting shot in the arm or chest up close, but in frantic situations, the attacker may accidentally aim for the head, and then suddenly things can get ugly. Literally. So for the sake of safety and respect, everyone should adhere to surrender guidelines as they are explained.
So, with all that discussion in mind, here are the official rules I am putting for as a general guideline for surrender rules, and the rules I will be employing at all of my events.
Under no circumstances can you shoot anyone inside of 20ft.
Player (A) can ask player (B) to surrender when
(A) is in total control of the situation
(A) has no real risk of being shot
(B) doesn't expect (A) or doesn't know that (A) is there
(A) knows (point iii) to be the case
(A) is within 5ft of (B)
(A) does not have their finger near the trigger
To call for a surrender, a player is to have their weapon properly shouldered/aimed, finger off the trigger, and call out "Surrender" loud enough for the opponent to hear. The opponent in turn is to respond by calling out "I surrender."
Given proper conditions are met, a surrender cannot be denied or refused
It is the attacking player's responsibility to only attempt a surrender under proper conditions.
Failure to attempt a surrender under proper conditions results in both the attacker and defender being eliminated.
In any case where an engagement occurs in proximity less than 20ft, if there is ANY question as to who should be eliminated, both parties involved are to be eliminated.
So be smart. If you think there is a risk of you accidentally getting shot by the person your are trying to get to surrender, then you honestly are not in a good enough position to call for a surrender to begin with.
(Taken from http://www.airsoftplayers.com)
Pikachoad
When playing airsoft, there will always be cases where a player will try to get another player to surrender… i.e. give up without a fight. Due to a lack of normalization of the protocols for surrender attempts, we often find that some of the most dangerous encounters on the airsoft field come out of botched surrender attempts.
This article attempts to codify the procedures for surrender attempts. While I am not indicating that everyone should/will use this, these procedures WILL be used at least at every event I host (Op: Southern Comfort).
To begin, a few observations:
Safety is the paramount concern. You hear that? Paramount. Even more important than the simulation aspect of the activity. No matter WHAT, you should never shoot anyone at close range.
Simulation is the second most important concern. After safety of course.
Accidents will happen. But…
You are responsible for your actions. It is easy to get caught up in the moment of a skirmish, but there are no excuses for sloppy play when safety is at risk.
How does one ask for a surrender? This can be left up to individual groups or events. Some people say "bang." I personally prefer that the attacker say "Surrender." The key is just make sure every player knows what to listen for.
That being said lets begin with the rules for WHEN a surrender is feasible. As an attacker, you should consider a surrender attempt only if you are in total control of the situation. This is KEY. You should know where the opponent is, you should have a positional advantage on your opponent, you should have your gun properly shouldered/aimed, and your attempt at a surrender should come as a surprise to your opponent. If there is a CHANCE that your opponent could feel that he or she has the advantage over you, then do NOT try a surrender. In other words, a surrender should be a 100% one-sided action. The opponent should be caught totally off guard. If they know you are there, and know you are coming, DO NOT try to get a surrender.
Why?
On a philosophical level, when you ask someone to surrender, you are saying that their death is imminent, and you are giving them the chance to avoid having to actually be shot. Now, this means that for you to ask for a surrender, the opponents death must be imminent… meaning that the kill must be 100% yours. If there is ANY chance of them getting the kill on you first, then it is inappropriate to go for a surrender.
When going in for a surrender, KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER. Under no circumstances will you shoot the person. If you fear you will get shot yourself, maybe you should reconsider if you are actually in control of the situation, and if a surrender is appropriate.
When going for a surrender, you should only call for a surrender when your opponent is at point blank range. Meaning less than say 5 feet away… close enough to almost touch them with the barrel of your gun. If you cannot get in that close, then maybe you should reconsider if you are actually in control of the situation and if a surrender is appropriate.
Some people indicate that you should only call for surrender from behind… I find this to be a bit too exclusive, in that you can often get surrenders from the side or above, depending on the terrain and the layout of where you play. Just make sure you are within 5ft, and are in no real danger of getting shot.
Lets look at practical examples of this.
I saw this at an event in Atlanta this past weekend. We knew bogies where in a barn. Someone ran across the door of the barn, and while running, aimed their gun into the barn, and yelled "bang" a few times. This is not a valid surrender attempt. It was safe, which is fine, but it fails any degree of realism and control. The attacker had no idea where specifically the opponents were. Do not try for a surrender when you don't know where your opponents are.
You have one person in a bunker, one outside. The one on the outside knows the other guy is in there, so he sticks his gun in through a window, and calls for surrender. This is not a valid surrender attempt. You should be able to see the person and be in total control of your gun. I think it is lame anytime someone fires a gun without having it shouldered or properly aimed (ever see a person fire a M16 just by holding it off to their side, and not shouldered???), but it is especially dangerous to do it in a surrender attempt.
You have two people in a close quarters area, who suddenly each round a corner and see the other person a few feet away. Neither is in control, both are aware of the other, no surrender attempt should be made.
Same event in Atlanta as I mentioned above, same barn. Opponent on inside of barn, shooting out to the side. I come up to the barn, knowing he is still focusing on the people to my right, and him unable to see me because of the barn walls. I come up to the wall, waited for him to reload, spin round with gun in hand, aim the gun at him, and call for surrender. I am in control, I have my gun aimed, he has no idea I was there. That was a proper surrender, and he did. Once I finished that surrender, a guy that way behind me on the other side of the barn, hiding behind a door called for my surrender. I didn't know he was there, he was in control, and had his gun steadily aimed. Without hesitation, I surrendered. True event, with two proper surrenders.
At the field in Dothan, Steve and I were having a shoot out in Dodge City at fairly close range. He pulled back to reload or just get his bearings, and I quickly ran up to the bunker he was in, ran around the back of it, came up behind him, and called for surrender. He knew I was close, but didn't know I had gone around the back of the bunker, and I caught him by surprise. Properly executed surrender. True story.
At the field in Dothan again, Steve went for a surrender on Blake. Blake was shooting out of a window in a bunker, when Steve came up to the front of the bunker, and just suddenly popped in front of Blake and called for surrender. Blake was startled, and as he pulled back, his gun (which was already sticking out of the window) snagged on the window, and since the gun stopped but his hand kept going, he ended up squeezing the trigger and shooting Steve at point blank range. Now, this is an interesting case. Steve called for surrender, but because he wasn't in control of the situation properly, he was actually shot. If there is a chance you will get shot, then don't call for surrender. While it is unfortunate that Steve was shot at point blank, he shouldn't have thrown his body in front of a shooting AEG only 4 inches away.
Event in Athens, GA. One guy covers up in a bush by the side of a trail. Some opponents come by in a tank. The guy pops up when the tank is about 20 ft away, and calls for a surrender. This is an improperly executed surrender. Opponents were too far away.
Now, some of these scenarios beg the question… what do you do in cases where you cannot call for a surrender?
In the first example above, if you get close to someone but cannot make a controlled surrender attempt, and your only choice is to run by and yell "bang", then simply look for a better angle. Pull back, and try to approach from a distance and angle where you can either get a controlled surrender attempt, or, you can engage the opponent with your gun.
In the second example above, if you find yourself dangerously close to someone and you cannot get a controlled surrender attempt, either totally fall back and go for a longer-range attack or try to maneuver around to get a controlled surrender. In the fifth example above, I found myself in that position with Steve. My choices were either to retreat to a safe position and resume firing, or sneak around and take him by surprise, which I did. If he had turned around and seen me as I was approaching, a surrender attempt would have NOT been made (see the very next case below).
In the third example above, which is quite common, two people suddenly are face to face. No one is in control of the situation. Here you have two choices… either you both are out, or you both agree to part ways and meet again later in the battle. Remember, safety first, and no matter what are you to ever shoot someone in close. For the sake of realism, I would prefer that both people be eliminated in this scenario.
What if you have a good angle on someone, but suspect that if you move in close for a surrender, you will jeopardize your control of the situation or put yourself in an unsafe situation? Just position yourself so you are outside of the minimum shooting distance, and shoot them with a single shot. No need to spray on fully automatic if you have the element of surprise. In the seventh example above, the guy laying the ambush should have just waited and shot everyone in the tank, rather than trying to make a long distance surrender.
Can you deny a surrender? No. IF someone properly executes a surrender, then the opponent cannot deny it in any way. The responsibility in these situations falls on the attacker going for the surrender, not the opponent.
Can you exclude yourself from the surrender rules and just take close shots? While people may say "just go ahead and shoot me up close," that should never be allowed. People may not mind getting shot in the arm or chest up close, but in frantic situations, the attacker may accidentally aim for the head, and then suddenly things can get ugly. Literally. So for the sake of safety and respect, everyone should adhere to surrender guidelines as they are explained.
So, with all that discussion in mind, here are the official rules I am putting for as a general guideline for surrender rules, and the rules I will be employing at all of my events.
Under no circumstances can you shoot anyone inside of 20ft.
Player (A) can ask player (B) to surrender when
(A) is in total control of the situation
(A) has no real risk of being shot
(B) doesn't expect (A) or doesn't know that (A) is there
(A) knows (point iii) to be the case
(A) is within 5ft of (B)
(A) does not have their finger near the trigger
To call for a surrender, a player is to have their weapon properly shouldered/aimed, finger off the trigger, and call out "Surrender" loud enough for the opponent to hear. The opponent in turn is to respond by calling out "I surrender."
Given proper conditions are met, a surrender cannot be denied or refused
It is the attacking player's responsibility to only attempt a surrender under proper conditions.
Failure to attempt a surrender under proper conditions results in both the attacker and defender being eliminated.
In any case where an engagement occurs in proximity less than 20ft, if there is ANY question as to who should be eliminated, both parties involved are to be eliminated.
So be smart. If you think there is a risk of you accidentally getting shot by the person your are trying to get to surrender, then you honestly are not in a good enough position to call for a surrender to begin with.